http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4981906.ece
Speaking at a fundraiser in Seattle on Sunday night, Mr Biden said: “Mark my words, it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy…Remember I said it standing here . . . we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”
Mr Obama would need help and support, Mr Biden suggested, “because it’s not gonna be apparent, initially, that we’re right.”
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no matter how much you hate Bush, his foreign policy kept this country safe. numerous plots have been thwarted and the enemy knows our response won’t be to back down. why, exactly, mr Biden, would I want to vote for somone who might invite crisis in the world and specifically to our country? no-one doubts McCain and what his path would be in foreign policy-it would be a continuance of putting real fear into our enemies and telling them they can’t attack us and expect to get away with it. with Barack its a legitimate concern as to his strength in this area and his own VP–supposedly a foreign policy expert in his own right–has questioned. hell, Biden even said that their response might not even be right lol.
Ask yourself truthfully–were you scared after 9/11? did that rattle you to know that those people are out there and could get away with what they did? how do you feel now? would you have been happier with a verbal response? would you have been ok with cutting and running from Iraq when the going got tough(like Obama and the democrats wanted)-showing our enemies we weren’t up for the fight (like clinton did at every turn in the 90s)? i’m not about to find out what crisis Barack might invite.
“no matter how much you hate Bush, his foreign policy kept this country safe.”
Prove it. I hate post hoc ergo propter hoc arguments like this. There’s too many variables at play in the world to make claims like this. But everyone always does it anyway. If you said “I pushed the ball, so the ball rolled”, I’d be inclined to believe it. Past a certain level it just don’t work so well. Maybe I’d believe it if you said mainly extra security measures at home keep the country safe. Security measures we needed anyway but didn’t have till after 9/11 since no one ever gets around to doing anything until lots of people die. I’d also venture the guess that no matter who the president was at the time, the security measures would have happened basically the same. A 6th grader could get that right. “Umm, I think the airplanes need to be safer! Oh, and maybe we should pay more attention to who comes into the country!” Congratulations, you graduate to junior high Johnny!
“McCain and what his path would be in foreign policy-it would be a continuance of putting real fear into our enemies”
“Ask yourself truthfully–were you scared after 9/11? did that rattle you to know that those people are out there and could get away with what they did? how do you feel now?”
Wait, who was the administration and the right trying to scare? Us or them?? I’m so confused… and frightened! I’d better suspend rational thought and vote republican, just to be safe!
Whether blatantly intentional or mildly calculated (it’s no accident), the methods leave a very bad taste in my mouth. The tactics have not changed in this election and no tactic will work forever. People are seeing through this tired rhetoric, finally. That’s at least one good reason McCain is, what, 2 or 3 points past the precipice of losing two weeks before election day.
“would you have been happier with a verbal response?”
Ignoring Afghanistan, maybe a more appropriate and less speculative question would be “were the results of the previous administrations actions worth $3 trillion, 4,000 American dead, 30,000 wounded, and what, maybe a few hundred thousand Iraqi lives?” Of course, that’s assuming there is such a thing as an “innocent Iraqi”! Yukyuk.
“it would be a continuance”
I’m thinking that is what frightens most people this time around.
Comment by Pshaw — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 3:56 am
Oh, and yeah, I’ll vote. Hopefully the absentee ballot is in the mail or will be soon.
Comment by Pshaw — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 4:03 am
you didnt answer at all what Biden said…fact is obama’s own running mate admits obama will be viewed as weak by our enemies. no one can say that about bush. obama opposed supporting our troops in battle and supported calling iraq a lost cause and quitting. thats pathetic and would have sent a horrible message. Bush deserves credit for the surge and winning this war in iraq and seriously damaging terrorist activity. if the next move is afganistan then lets do it.
oh yeah? you prove that it didn’t work. simple logic would indicate that since we took the fight to our enemies and proved we won’t back down it might just possibly have made terrorists think twice about trying again? i realize terrorists are insane but is that still so wild to assume? hell, look at what being big and bad did for us with Reagan and the cold war. being strong militarily and using it makes a difference.
as obvious as everything Bush has done should have been, he was opposed by democrats at almost every turn.
iraq has not been a campaign issue because liberal media knows its a losing issue for obama/democrats because how stupid they look for opposing the surge and owning defeat.
p.s. carter was 10 up on reagan, algore was 10 up on bush, kerry was 10 pts up and considered a total lock on election day. bla bla bla hopefully america will wake up and realize how inexperienced and extreme socialist/leftist that obama is.
p.s.s. this is fun
Comment by Andy — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 7:38 am
Oh, sure, we can go there too : )
“fact is obama’s own running mate admits obama will be viewed as weak by our enemies.”
Oh did he? Let’s see… Hmm, I read the whole article and I never once saw the words weak or enemies in quotes, or for that matter anything that could be paraphrased as what you are saying. Or maybe you mean when the article (and not Biden) said “Mr Obama would need help and support, Mr Biden suggested”? Wait, I forgot, he was speaking at a fundraiser, guess that makes sense. Was there some quotes I missed? Wait, I think I get it, maybe someone else said that he said that, and then you quoted that person? I bet it was someone from the liberal media! Or maybe you just made it up? Now I’m curious. Wait, did you even read the article you posted?
Oh and anyone who realy believes there would actually be a “generated crisis” is truly delusional. Of course there will be crises no matter who is elected. Believing they will be tailor made for whoever is president is seriously pessimistic/conspiracy theorist.
Comment by Pshaw — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Oh Bush and the surge, lol. That’s like saying my bottle rocket burned the whole neighborhood down but I managed to save my house. I mean, I guess that could be considered good? As far as the horrific violence (that we caused by letting a political vacuum develop after our invasion) subsiding in Iraq or as you call it “winning”: sure I’ll give him a little credit for that, but I’ll probably give more to Petraeus. Oh and maybe the most credit to us bribing Iraqis to “fight Al-Qaeda” and not each other.
I’d post a link to a source here but I don’t think the website likes it…
We’ll see what happens when we do end up leaving. Hope all the terrorists are gone, otherwise, oops!
Comment by Pshaw — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 9:59 am
sigh
if i try to test someone, is it because i believe they are completely ready for something? or do i test them because i dont know or even believe they aren’t? cmon now.
“I’m asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you’re going to have to reinforce us.”
this quote wasn’t in that article (do your own research) but it says he’ll need support bla bla bla not really the biggest point here.
whether there is a crisis or not or if you believe there would be or not, why the hell would anyone say something like this? esp the guys own running mate?
boy you are tough to please when it comes to bush and iraq. i mean i understand not everything involved in fighting a war against terrorist regimes is going to be cut and dry…mistakes will be made…i’ll never get the extreme disdain of anything and everything bush by anyone. its wierd to me.
Comment by Andy — Wednesday, October 22, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
“I’m asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you’re going to have to reinforce us.”
Ahem. As already I wrote.
“Wait, I forgot, he was speaking at a fundraiser, guess that makes sense.”
Again.
“he was speaking at a fundraiser”
To me that doesn’t seem like an outrageous thing to say.
At.
A.
Fundraiser.
Unless he was asking rich Democrat Jim the Plumber who owns his own $250,000 a year business (who doesn’t buy into the whole fear-monger buzzlabel “socialist” btw) for advice on “What the hell should we do if we are elected?!?” and not just simply asking for his money. I mean, I know what makes more sense to me.
Comment by Pshaw — Thursday, October 23, 2008 @ 1:20 am
“boy you are tough to please when it comes to bush and iraq. i mean i understand not everything involved in fighting a war against terrorist regimes is going to be cut and dry…mistakes will be made…i’ll never get the extreme disdain of anything and everything bush by anyone. its wierd to me.”
E.g. the Iraq war specifically, I just get more than a little pissed when people try to spin it as a good thing, especially now. At one point it was arguable, it’s not now. The con column waaaay out numbers the pro column. I’m sure there’s other opinions out there but that’s mine. And I don’t blame everything on Bush. As much as it pains me to say it, I do believe he’s mainly had good intentions for the USA at heart. I think the problem really lies with the people he chose to (or was told to, who knows) surround himself with. He’s had a lot of real f***heads in there, and I don’t believe many of them gave a s*** about what anyone else thought, especially the average American. The utter contempt for the public that’s been shown many times over the last 8 years is despicable. Too bad the good republicans will most likely reap what’s been sown now. But I guess that’s just the way the system works these days.
Comment by Pshaw — Thursday, October 23, 2008 @ 1:46 am
the cons are much easier to measure than the pros for the avg joe. its easy to look and say wow lots of money spent, people died, it took too long, ect. however the pros of rooting out a facist regime (that we’ve already had to fight once) and establishing a democracy in the middle east whilst defeating at least one central base for terrorism really have yet to be determined completely but may well pay off ten fold. i doubt that convinces you but remember everyone was for the move initially which is what annoys me the most is how when it got difficult everyone wanted out which i still think would have been a horrible precedent to set considering the relentless type of enemy we face.
Comment by Andy — Thursday, October 23, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
Lordy, lordy. You’re gonna take your argument down this path then? It’s a shame the following post need exist at all. But if you insist…
CAUSE-
Ahem, again, as I wrote:
“The utter contempt for the public that’s been shown many times over the last 8 years”
EFFECT-
Hmm, I don’t know, perhaps statements like:
“the cons are much easier to measure than the pros for the avg joe.”
This is such a cop out, but I’m gonna bite anyway, I feel I must.
We’ve been repeatedly told in not so subtle terms our opinion of things doesn’t matter much, it’s not up to us to interpret what we see with our own eyes, just leave it up to “them”, and apparently you’ve bought it hook, line, and sinker. I stopped buying it about the fifth time Rumsfeld flashed me his grinchy smile and told me things like (and just google it, there’s plenty of real knee-slappers) “Needless to say, the President is correct. Whatever it was he said.” Or how about “Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war.” Yes I suppose we SHOULD have an upbeat view of war. Freudian slip? How telling, Mr. Rumsfeld. Or perhaps “It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.” It’s been around 6 years now. At first I believed, then later I just wanted to believe, that the pros outweighed the cons. Now I’ve stopped. You still want to believe it could pay off ten fold, maybe 10, 20, 100 years down the road? Fair enough. Call me a pessimist but from where I’m sitting I don’t ever see the pros outweighing the cons ten fold.
“But! But!” you say:
“the cons are much easier to measure than the pros for the avg joe.”
If you really believe the statement you typed, and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you consider yourself an average Joe also and were not just directing that exclusively at me: then I have just one question for you, sir. Why the f*** are you going to vote, and why should I? If our conclusions and opinions about the pros and cons of things as important as the massive military effort in Iraq are invalid or not worthy because we are “average Joes” without the knowledge or expertise to properly interpret things for ourselves then why bother involving yourself in the political process at all. Just leave it up to the people who’s opinions DO matter. Who supposedly have all the information, or the correct or real information. Might I suggest you just go home, turn your lights off, draw your curtains, pay no attention to things like “the news” and just sit this one out friend. Really, I want to know why you would vote and not let the ones “in the know” make your decisions for you. Well sir, at best that’s anti-democratic, at worst it sounds downright un-American.
“opening the floodgates on why Obama should not be our president”
So far I’ve only witnessed a trickle from the spigot of the far right blogosphere propaganda machine with no real substance, nary a personal thought and little critical review behind the wild claims you so willingly accept at face value and then regurgitate on cue, especially on this post. The dark republican sith lords of the far right have hissed through their little baked bean teeth “Don’t question, don’t think, just repeat after us…” and it appears the faithful have bought the farm. It’s laziness, it’s complacency, and it’s yet another reason the race is not looking good for the repubs.
If I wanted to read or even cared about what Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly have to say about what Joe Biden said yesterday, or why we should all be crapping our pants with fear over Obama, or socialsm, or the relentless terrorist enemy lurking in every shadow, or whatever fantstic versions of reality they spin, I’d go read their blogs, I’m sure it would be a thrilling read, but trust me, I won’t. (I made the mistake of reading Ann Coulter’s yesterday, it was written exactly like how a preppy horse-faced high school girl would write a mean article about the quarterback of the football team in the school newspaper because he didn’t ask her to prom. “But, but, he… And he… He’s so…”) The only reason I bothered to read any of this blog is because I wanted to see what YOU thought, I still want to see that, and so far I don’t feel like I’ve seen anything of the sort. The only thing I’ve seen proven here is that this blog is the work of yet another internet troll and parrot of the right. Prove me wrong. You’ve got some, erm, unique views on KU, I know you’ve got it in you, I want to see some unique views on the election. “Prove me wrong children! Prove me wrong…”
Comment by Pshaw — Friday, October 24, 2008 @ 3:56 am
sorry didn’t see this comment until now. forgot to check back. anyway, you sure extrapolated a lot out of a simple comment. all i was really trying to say was how the left’s dissention in the war often times focused on simple measurables like cost and death tolls and little on the potential effect of just pulling out and taking a loss.
i will always question elected officials on both sides on things i understand well like economy and social issues. foreign policy i dont understand as well. i probably should but i don’t even know where to begin sometimes. i mean, i can’t fly to iraq and look for myself so what i should blindly trust reporters? what do they really know? wtf does anyone really know about what goes on halfway around the world? i guess i will likely listen to what military leaders say and go from there, they are the eyes on the ground and most in the know. if thats dumb then help me out. if rumsfeld was the problem, then ok i’ll fault Bush for taking to long to change it up. gimme a break dude, you were unneccesarily harsh.
i admit this wasn’t the strongest post by me, but lets face it, it was a dumb comment by Biden. I do fear for Obama wanting to cut the military and institute a Carter/Clintonesq foreign policy…we’ve seen the results of that (iran hostage crisis and 9/11). when we appear weak, our enemies will take notice. America isn’t in a position to just stand on the sidelines anymore, IMO.
I hope I’ve proved you wrong a little bit since this post.
Comment by Andy — Tuesday, November 4, 2008 @ 2:22 am